Difference between revisions of "San Francisco"

From Burden's Landing
BurdensLanding>Hjkim
(→‎Mission: added links for places on 24th St)
(Added Dogpatch)
 
(18 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 3: Line 3:
Our home and the most beautiful place in the world. Known for the [[Golden Gate Bridge]]. The local newspaper is the ''[http://www.sfgate.com/ San Francisco Chronicle]''.
Our home and the most beautiful place in the world. Known for the [[Golden Gate Bridge]]. The local newspaper is the ''[http://www.sfgate.com/ San Francisco Chronicle]''.


See [[Bay Area]] for nearby cities. Also see [[Angel Island]].
See [[Bay Area]] for nearby cities. Also see [[Angel Island]], [[Golden Gate Park]].


== Pick-up Basketball ==
There's detailed food information in the neighborhood sections below, but there's also some specialized information in [[San Francisco/Food]].
 
= Pick-up Basketball =
 
I play every Sunday morning at Julius Kahn Park in Laurel Heights right next to the Presidio.


[http://www.yelp.com/biz/richmond-recreation-center-san-francisco-2 Richmond Recreation Center] (18th Ave, between Clement and California). 2011 hours:
[http://www.yelp.com/biz/richmond-recreation-center-san-francisco-2 Richmond Recreation Center] (18th Ave, between Clement and California). 2011 hours:
Line 25: Line 29:
Other:
Other:


* [https://indoorhoops.com/ Indoor Hoops]
* [http://www.jccsf.org/ Jewish Community Center of San Francisco] (see [http://www.yelp.com/biz/3IsvKxo1sT8xY5qSVaeJ0w?&utm_source=newsletter_01_17_06&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly+Yelp Yelp review])
* [http://www.jccsf.org/ Jewish Community Center of San Francisco] (see [http://www.yelp.com/biz/3IsvKxo1sT8xY5qSVaeJ0w?&utm_source=newsletter_01_17_06&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly+Yelp Yelp review])
* http://www.ymcasf.org/Central/sports.html
* http://www.ymcasf.org/Central/sports.html
Line 34: Line 39:
* http://www.sfweekly.com/bestof/2005/bestsports/bestsports24.html
* http://www.sfweekly.com/bestof/2005/bestsports/bestsports24.html


== Local Blogs ==
[[Donaldina Cameron House]] in Chinatown has an iconic view of SF and was featured in Will Smith's, ''In Pursuit of Happyness''. Not sure if you can play pickup there.
 
= Local Blogs =


These are the local blogs I follow to keep up with what's going on in the city.
These are the local blogs I follow to keep up with what's going on in the city.
Line 44: Line 51:
* [http://www.munidiaries.com/ Muni Diaries]. Another quirky art project celebrating this city's public transportation.
* [http://www.munidiaries.com/ Muni Diaries]. Another quirky art project celebrating this city's public transportation.


== Neighborhoods ==
= Party Ideas =
 
[http://bigthink.com/ideas/21494 Secret Spaces of San Francisco]


[http://www.outsidelands.org/ Western Neighborhoods Project]. Includes the Richmond, the Sunset, and West Portal.
Escape party


=== Bayview ===
[http://joeythecat.com/ Joey the Cat] skeeball and arcade event space


Cindy Alvarez forwarded me an article about [[Frisco Fried]].
= Neighborhoods =


=== Bernal Heights ===
[http://bigthink.com/ideas/21494 Secret Spaces of San Francisco]


[http://www.avedanos.com/ Avedano's Holly Park Market], a butcher specializing in local, sustainably raised meats and run by [http://www.insidebayarea.com/timesstar/ci_9821208 three women]
[http://www.outsidelands.org/ Western Neighborhoods Project]. Includes the Richmond, the Sunset, and West Portal.
 
=== Castro ===
 
* Get the kati roll (an Indian wrap) at [[Kasa]].
* [[Chilango]]
 
=== Chinatown ===
 
* [[Gold Mountain Restaurant]]
* [[Utopia Cafe]]
* [[Mow Lee Shing Kee]]
* [[Z&Y]]
* [[Bund Shanghai]]
* [[Pacific Court Cafe]]
* [[Chef Hung's]]
* [[Capital]]
* [[Yee's Restaurant]]
 
See: [http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2012/03/taking_chinatown_eats_with_wok.php Taking Chinatown Eats With Wok Wiz Tour Guide Frank Jang]
 
=== [[Cole Valley]] ===
 
 
=== Duboce Triangle ===
 
[[L'Ardoise]] is an awesome French restaurant nestled in this neighborhood. [[Jumpin' Java Coffee House]] is right next door and has free WiFi.
 
=== Fillmore District ===
 
* [[Nan]]
* [[State Bird Provisions]]
 
=== Financial District ===
 
Restaurants:
 
* [[The Pied Piper Bar and Grill]] in the [http://www.sfpalace.com/ Palace Hotel]
 
=== Fisherman's Wharf ===
 
Sadly, my favorite fish n' chips place, Taits, is now closed. However, this Argentinian food truck, [[Tanguito]], sounds intriguing.
 
=== Haight ===
 
Restaurants:
 
* Brunch (cornmeal pancakes) at [[Kate's Kitchen]].
* Puerto Rican food at [[Parada 22]]
 
=== Hayes Valley ===
 
[[Alice Waters]] [http://blogs.kqed.org/bayareabites/2010/08/03/scouting-alice-waters-bay-area-eats/ likes] [[Sebo]] for sushi. So do Anthony Bourdain and Chris Cosentino. Meg [http://twitter.com/megnakamura/status/25046294951 likes] their Sunday izakaya.
 
Other:
 
* [[Lers Ros Thai]]. Near the Civic Center.
* [[The Mint]]. In the Civic Center Courthouse.
* [[Los Compadres]]. Taco truck.
* [[Nojo]]
 
=== Inner Richmond ===
 
Restaurants:
 
* [[Lou's Cafe]]
* [[Quan Bac]]
 
More [[Patricia Unterman]] recommendations:
 
* [[Pho Ha Noi]]
* [[To Hyang]]
* [[San Dong  House BBQ]]
* [[Golden Gate Dim Sum Seafood Restaurant]]
* [[Sichuan Home]]
 
Secret sushi spots:
 
* [[Tekka]]
* [[Sushi Bistro]]
* [[Okina Sushi]]
 
Bay City Smog: Park Presidio 76
 
4850 Geary Blvd (between 12th and 14th Ave)<br />
San Francisco, CA 94108<br />
415-386-0288<br />
Hours: M-Sat: 8am-6pm
 
=== Inner Sunset ===
 
[[Canvas Cafe]] is no more.
 
Tart to Tart (Irving, between 7th and 8th)
 
19th and Taraval Smog Test (at Shell Gas Station)
 
2399 19th Ave<br />
San Francisco, CA 94116<br />
415-682-6899<br />
Hours: M-Sat: 8am-6pm
 
=== Japantown ===
 
[[Soko Hardware]] for Japanese cooking and gardening tools.
 
=== Marina ===
 
More [[Patricia Unterman]] recommendations:
 
* [[Tipsy Pig]]
 
Other:
 
* [[Grove Cafe]] (Chestnut)
* [[Tacolicious]]
 
=== Mission ===
 
* [[Schmidt's Deli]] ([[Patricia Unterman]] recommendation)
* [[Zante Pizza]] (Joe Blaylock recommendation)
* [[Los Jarritos]] (Bay Area Bites chilaquiles recommendation)
* [[R-Image Deli]]
* [[Nombe]]
* [[Mr Pollo]]
* [[Taqueria Vallarta]] (for tacos @$1.75 each) (24th St, just west of Harrison)
* [http://www.humphryslocombe.com/Home.html Humphry Slocombe] (24th and Harrison Sts)
* [[Wise Sons]] -- serves only on Wednesdays to Sundays
* [[La Palma]] -- the Mexicatessen on 24th and Bryant where we get our tortillas
* [http://www.7x7sf.com/eat_drink/blog/19931599.html Dynamo Donuts] (24th St between York and Hampshire)
* [[St. Francisco Fountain]] (SF's oldest ice cream parlor; serves Mitchell's ice cream and fountain treats, plus diner food; on 24th between Bryant & York)
 
Muddy Waters (Valencia, between 16th and 17th)
 
=== North Beach ===
 
* [[Macellato]] apparently for fried chicken sandwich
 
=== Outer Richmond ===
 
Food and drink:
 
* [[Hockey Haven]]. Haven't been yet, but it looks like I'll need to go.
* [[Firehouse Pizzeria]]
* [[hot sauce and panko]]
* [[Cassava Cafe]]
 
[[Patricia Unterman]] recommendation:
 
* [[Hakka Restaurant]]
* [[Kam's]]
* [[Han Il Kwan]]
 
Places to walk:
 
* [[Fort Miley]]
 
Bought some from [http://www.houseofflowers-sf.com/ House of Flowers] for my sister's 27th birthday. They're okay -- friendly, family-owned, decent selection, close to my apartment -- but they're not at the [http://www.millsflorist.com/ Mills the Florist] ([[Palo Alto]]) or [http://www.jacobmaarse.com/ Jacob Maarse] ([[Pasadena]]) level.
 
I looked at Balboa Green Garden Florist (Balboa and 37th) and My Flower Shop (Geary and 25th), but I wasn't thrilled with either. Small shops with limited selection and no example bouquets on display.
 
I used Richmond Test Only Center on July 3, 2006 for 2006 smog check.
 
1934 Clement St. FL1 (between 20th and 21st Ave)<br />
San Francisco, CA 94121<br />
415-933-9288<br />
Hours: M-Sat: 8am-6pm
 
The [http://richmondsfblog.com/2010/06/09/the-richmond-districts-satanic-past/ home of the founder of the Church of Satan] is in the Outer Richmond.
 
=== Outer Sunset ===
 
[http://www.outsidelands.org/oceanside.php Oceanside] is the old name for the Outer Sunset area near the ocean. There's a great three block stretch on Judah west of 41st Ave with funky cafes and great organic market called Other Avenues.
 
[[Outerlands]], which opened in early 2009, looks like a great place for healthy and delicious soups, salads, and desserts, with a casual and cool ambiance. The food, however, didn't meet our expectations and was slightly overpriced. It's okay if you want something healthy and warm ambiance, but it's not worth a special trip.
 
[[Patricia Unterman]] recommends [[The Pizza Place]] for homey, family-style pizza, [[Just Won Ton]] for won ton soup, and [[Beachside Coffee Bar and Kitchen]] for comfort food.
 
=== Pacific Heights / Nob Hill ===
 
Royal Ground (Polk and Sacramento)
 
Cafe Casablanca (Polk and Sacramento)
 
=== Panhandle ===
 
* [[Nopalito]]
 
=== Potrero Hill ===
 
Sally's Restaurant
 
300 De Haro Street, #300 (16th Street)<br />
415-626-6006
 
Near 101.
 
=== Presidio ===
 
Fort Point (off the [[Golden Gate Bridge]] has a bunch of [http://www.nps.gov/fopo/planyourvisit/guidedtours.htm guided tours], including a pier crabbing demonstration. It's free, but it fills up months in advance, so reserve quickly. Goes from March through October.
 
[[Presidio Social Club]]
 
=== SoMa ===
 
[[Little Skillet]] has the best fried chicken in the city.
 
[[Brickhouse Cafe]]
 
[[Ruchi]] is a great, homey South Indian restaurant.
 
426 Brannan Street (between 3rd and 4th)<br />
415-369-0222
 
Just off I-80.
 
[[Moya]] is a new Ethiopian restaurant.
 
[[Citizen's Band]] is an upscale diner.
 
[[Spice Kit]] has gourmet Korean and Vietnamese fast food.
 
[[Cupola Pizzeria]] is supposedly a surprisingly good Italian restaurant in the Westfield.
 
=== Tenderloin / Union Square ===
 
[[Brenda's French Soul Food]] is a creole place near the Civic Center. Referred by Moka.
 
[[Show Dogs]] is a gourmet hot dog place on Market near 6th. It's solid, but it's expensive and not worth a special trip. The dogs at [[Zog Dog]] on Market and Montgomery, while conventional, are just as tasty, if not moreso, and they're cheaper.
 
More [[Patricia Unterman]] recommendations:
 
* [[Let's Be Frank]]
* [[Gitane]]
 
Other:
 
* [[Farm: Table]]
* [[The Educated Palate]]
 
== Restaurants ==
 
Must eat places. These are for the entire Bay Area, not just San Francisco. We tried to select only destination places, places that we'd encourage visitors in town to visit for a special San Francisco experience if they were only in town for a few days.
 
{|border="1"
|[[Bull's Head Burgers]] || Organic beef burger
|-
|[[Koo]] || Sushi
|-
|[[Roli Roti]] || porchetta sandwich
|-
|[[Saravanna Bhavan]] || South Indian food
|-
|[[Gialina's]] || All of their pizzas are outstanding, but their chocolate dessert pizza is special.
|-
|[[Humphry Slocombe]] || ice cream
|-
|[[Bakesale Betty's]] || fried chicken sandwich
|-
|[[Pho Dong]] || Vietnamese food
|-
|[[Rosamunde]] || Have a delicious sausage on a roll and eat it next door at [[Toronado]] with a beer.
|-
|[[Golden Boy Pizza]] || Late night, post-carousing Sicilian pizza.
|-
|[[La Palma]] || tortillas
|-
|[[La Quinta]] || Mexican food
|-
|[[La Oaxaquena]] || This Oaxacan place is hit or miss, but their tacos are a definite hit.
|-
|[[Aziza]] || Gourmet Moroccan
|-
|[[Cha-Ya]] || Vegan sushi. It doesn't sound good until you realize that practically everything is deep fried.
|-
|[[Cinderella's Bakery]] || Russian food.
|-
|[[Falafel Drive-In]] || Falafel
|-
|[[San Tung]] || Dry chicken wings
|-
|[[Chez Panisse]] || The capital of organic California cuisine.
|-
|[[Anh Hong]] || Seven courses of beef.
|-
|[[Tartine]] || The bread.
|-
|[[Bay Bread]] || The bread.
|-
|[[Gaesung Tofu House]] || Everything there is good, but the kimchi is outstanding. Almost as good as Mom's.
|-
|[[Hog Island Oyster Company]] || Oysters straight from [[Tomales Bay]].
|-
|[[Oyaji]] || Japanese izakaya.
|-
|[[Kappou Gomi]] || Not even sure how to describe it. Delicious Japanese food.
|}
 
On the bubble:
 
{|border="1"
|[[Red's Java House]] || Hot dogs
|-
|[[R&G Lounge]] || Authentic Cantonese food.
|-
|[[Shanghai Dumpling King]] || Xiao Long Bao
|-
|[[Park Chow]] || Comfort food
|-
|[[Marnee Thai]] || Duck pad kee mao
|-
|[[Dotty's True Blue Cafe]] || Brunch
|-
|[[Fraiche]] || Yogurt
|}
 
Gap analysis:
 
* Italian
* Chinese
* pub grub
* brunch
 
== Street Food ==
 
{|border="1"
|[[Roli Roti]] || Best pork sandwich ever. Chicken is underseasoned. I like the duck when it's available (although it's also a bit underseasoned. The roasted pork is continuously marinated in rendered fat and is obviously delicious.
|-
|[[Namu]] || Claim to have invented the Korean taco. Also at the San Francisco Ferry Building on Thursday's. A [[Fanny Singer]] [http://www.gourmet.com/restaurants/2009/09/bay-area-street-food recommendation].
|-
|[[4505 Meats]] || The DIY butcher also does truck food, also at the SF Ferry Building on Thursday's. A [[Fanny Singer]] [http://www.gourmet.com/restaurants/2009/09/bay-area-street-food recommendation]. You can taste the food quality, but I don't crave any of their food. There are better craft hot dogs, sausages, etc. Except for their [[chicharrones]]. Their chicharrones are exceptional.
|-
|[[Let's Be Frank]] || On weekends and holidays at Crissy Field.  A [[Fanny Singer]] [http://www.gourmet.com/restaurants/2009/09/bay-area-street-food recommendation].
|-
|[[Taco El Ray]] || In [[Berkeley]] at the foot of Ashby Ave.  A [[Fanny Singer]] [http://www.gourmet.com/restaurants/2009/09/bay-area-street-food recommendation].
|-
|[[Peko-Peko]] ||  A [[Fanny Singer]] [http://www.gourmet.com/restaurants/2009/09/bay-area-street-food recommendation].
|-
|[[El Tonayense]] || These much lauded taco trucks in the Mission are good, but nothing to write home about. Can get equivalent tacos at local taquerias.
|}


* [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/11/03/FDGRN9HG5P1.DTL "For the love of pho."] ''SanFranciscoChronicle'' (November 3, 2004).
* [[/Bayview]]
* [http://www.examiner.com/a-1534529~Kudos__S_F__chowder_house_takes_home_prize_for_creative_crab_recipe.html?cid=rss-San_Francisco "SF chowder house takes home prize for creative crab recipe."] ''San Francisco Examiner'' (August 13, 2008).  About Blue Mermaid Chowder House in Fisherman's Wharf.
* [[/Bernal Heights]]
* [[/Castro]]
* [[/Chinatown]]
* [[/Cole Valley]]
* [[/Dogpatch]]
* [[/Duboce Triangle]]
* [[/Fillmore District]]
* [[/Financial District]]
* [[/Fisherman's Wharf]]
* [[/Haight]]
* [[/Hayes Valley]]
* [[/Japantown]]
* [[/Laurel Heights]]
* [[/Marina]]
* [[/Mission]]
* [[/Nob Hill]]
* [[/North Beach]]
* [[/Pacific Heights]]
* [[/Panhandle]]
* [[/Potrero Hill]]
* [[/Presidio]]
* [[/Richmond District]]
* [[/SoMa]]
* [[/Sunset District]]
* [[/Tenderloin]]


== Tourist Tips ==
= Tourist Tips =


''I think I pulled these tips from a Conde Nast website -- can't remember which. This was from one of a series of articles on different cities, offering insider tips on avoiding tourist traps. I pulled the ones I either most agreed with or didn't already know to do.''
''I think I pulled these tips from a Conde Nast website -- can't remember which. This was from one of a series of articles on different cities, offering insider tips on avoiding tourist traps. I pulled the ones I either most agreed with or didn't already know to do.''
Line 410: Line 100:
* Don't...TAKE THE FERRY TO SAUSALITO; instead...TAKE THE FERRY TO TIBURON. ''Ride the ferry to Tiburon, a village in Marin County with a picturesque main street straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting. You'll get the same amazing shots as you sail past Alcatraz and Angel Island, and once you arrive in port, you'll have room to roam away from the herd. Poke your head into cute boutiques, snag a table for the obligatory dockside lunch at Sam's Grill (beware the seagulls swooping down on your fish and chips), and you've pretty much done Tiburon. But that's part of the charm. For full immersion in the kick-back Marin County lifestyle, snag a bay-view room at the Waters Edge Hotel and sip cocktails as the sun slips into the Pacific beyond the Golden Gate Bridge.''
* Don't...TAKE THE FERRY TO SAUSALITO; instead...TAKE THE FERRY TO TIBURON. ''Ride the ferry to Tiburon, a village in Marin County with a picturesque main street straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting. You'll get the same amazing shots as you sail past Alcatraz and Angel Island, and once you arrive in port, you'll have room to roam away from the herd. Poke your head into cute boutiques, snag a table for the obligatory dockside lunch at Sam's Grill (beware the seagulls swooping down on your fish and chips), and you've pretty much done Tiburon. But that's part of the charm. For full immersion in the kick-back Marin County lifestyle, snag a bay-view room at the Waters Edge Hotel and sip cocktails as the sun slips into the Pacific beyond the Golden Gate Bridge.''


== Dry Ice ==
= Dry Ice =


United Liquor Stores sells dry ice and styrofoam containers.  There's a UPS store down the block for shipping.
United Liquor Stores sells dry ice and styrofoam containers.  There's a UPS store down the block for shipping.
Line 418: Line 108:
Hours: 7am-1am
Hours: 7am-1am


== Other ==
= Other =


* You can apparently by any kind of wood you want for [[barbecue|barbecuing]] or [[smoking]] at [[Lazzari]] in [[Brisbane]], including the infamous [[red oak]] required for [[Santa Maria Barbecue]]
* [[Bay Area/Oak trees]]
* [http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/appendix5.htm Rental law concerning security deposits]
* [http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/appendix5.htm Rental law concerning security deposits]
* [[San Francisco Earthquake]]
* [[San Francisco Earthquake]]
* [[Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute]]
* [[Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute]]
* [http://culturekitchensf.com/ Culture Kitchen SF]. Cooking classes from immigrant women
* [http://culturekitchensf.com/ Culture Kitchen SF]. Cooking classes from immigrant women
* [[San Francisco/Photography]]

Latest revision as of 00:52, 18 November 2021

<flickr>3316026464|frame|m</flickr>

Our home and the most beautiful place in the world. Known for the Golden Gate Bridge. The local newspaper is the San Francisco Chronicle.

See Bay Area for nearby cities. Also see Angel Island, Golden Gate Park.

There's detailed food information in the neighborhood sections below, but there's also some specialized information in San Francisco/Food.

Pick-up Basketball

I play every Sunday morning at Julius Kahn Park in Laurel Heights right next to the Presidio.

Richmond Recreation Center (18th Ave, between Clement and California). 2011 hours:

  • Tuesday: 12:30-6:30pm
  • Wednesday: 2:45-6pm
  • Thursday: 11:30am-3pm; 5:30-8:45pm
  • Friday: 2:30-5:30pm
  • Saturday: 9-4:30pm

Sundays at 5pm at the Eureka Rec Center. Costs $5.

Other possibilities to explore:

Other:

Donaldina Cameron House in Chinatown has an iconic view of SF and was featured in Will Smith's, In Pursuit of Happyness. Not sure if you can play pickup there.

Local Blogs

These are the local blogs I follow to keep up with what's going on in the city.

Party Ideas

Escape party

Joey the Cat skeeball and arcade event space

Neighborhoods

Secret Spaces of San Francisco

Western Neighborhoods Project. Includes the Richmond, the Sunset, and West Portal.

Tourist Tips

I think I pulled these tips from a Conde Nast website -- can't remember which. This was from one of a series of articles on different cities, offering insider tips on avoiding tourist traps. I pulled the ones I either most agreed with or didn't already know to do.

  • Don't...TAKE THE POWELL STREET CABLE CARS. Lines snake around the cable car terminus at Powell and Market streets, the beginning of the two major cable-car lines (Powell-Hyde and Powell-Mason), which carry tourists to Fisherman's Wharf. While you wait -- sometimes as long as an hour -- you're held hostage by D-grade accordion players, panhandlers, and evangelists threatening hellfire. All this hassle for a ride on a toy train?
  • Instead...TAKE THE CALIFORNIA STREET LINE. Take the cable car line tourists don't know about: the California Street line. There's rarely a queue for this lightly traveled route because visitors don't know what to do at the end of the line, Van Ness Avenue. But we do: Grab a picnic lunch of succulent Cowgirl Creamery cheese and crusty French bread near the beginning of the route at the Ferry Building Marketplace and hop on the cable car at the foot of California Street. Then, from the terminus at Van Ness Avenue, walk to Lafayette Square, in swanky Pacific Heights, for a hilltop picnic in the shadow of stately townhouses. Afterward, window-shop Upper Fillmore St alongside the city's skirt-and-sweater matrons. (Tip: For a great photo on the cable car, shoot east downhill as you approach Stockton Street; the Bay Bridge tower is briefly framed just right between downtown skyscrapers.)
  • Don't...TAKE THE FERRY TO SAUSALITO; instead...TAKE THE FERRY TO TIBURON. Ride the ferry to Tiburon, a village in Marin County with a picturesque main street straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting. You'll get the same amazing shots as you sail past Alcatraz and Angel Island, and once you arrive in port, you'll have room to roam away from the herd. Poke your head into cute boutiques, snag a table for the obligatory dockside lunch at Sam's Grill (beware the seagulls swooping down on your fish and chips), and you've pretty much done Tiburon. But that's part of the charm. For full immersion in the kick-back Marin County lifestyle, snag a bay-view room at the Waters Edge Hotel and sip cocktails as the sun slips into the Pacific beyond the Golden Gate Bridge.

Dry Ice

United Liquor Stores sells dry ice and styrofoam containers. There's a UPS store down the block for shipping.

2401 Chestnut Street (@ Divisadero)
415-567-0580
Hours: 7am-1am

Other